Covens

[Celtaur]

I have a basic understanding of Witchcraft and Wicca from books over the years with dabbling interests. One of the area's I wonder about is Covens.

There have been instances I've heard of where people become members of a Coven and things turn out not so well. I do not doubt that there are excellent covens which achieve great work through their group practices. But if I were to be Wiccan I do not think I'd be comfortable working with a group in the manner of a coven from instances I've heard of where ego's, negative intentions, etc., occurred. For me 13 people allows for too much possible conflict of interests.

Smaller group work that develops through friendships may be something I'd be open to. I definitely feel most comfortable on my Path with solitary work. It could be, because of the mystery surrounding covens that creates a linked discomfort with the group work.

Because I have a lack of knowledge in the area of covens, and there are a number of Wiccan's on the forum, I'd be interested in learning perspectives from others experience with, and opinions on covens.

[TheJedi]

You are very correct, of course, in your assumption that 13 personalities do not always mesh well in any sort of group, even covens. Over the years, I have witnessed quite a few come and go. Even the Golden Dawn itself, with its mages of supposed higher enlightenment, eventually fell apart simply because of a conflict of egos. To help combat this, most covens at first grant what can be likened to a "sample" membership for a few months, during which time the initiate is allowed to attend rites and other gatherings for the purpose of getting to know the other members. Covens can be very different even in specific belief systems, and they may not mesh well with the initiates beliefs. During this period, there is usually no actual training involved. It is only a way of getting to know the other members, and they you, and then everyone discusses whether they think you will "fit in" or not. Simple as that, usually a very democratic process. And we haven't even considered the fact that even if you are a great fit, what if the coven already has its full 13 members? Yup, stuck again.

Given that covens are not typically on every street corner like a Christian church, that certainly whittles down the possibilities of finding one that feels right to you.

I have been a member of coven twice, and was very lucky to have a great relationship with everyone, but later had to relocate due to a new job. I live in a medium-sized city now, and covens are few and far between in Cincinnati, well-known and perhaps best-known for its ultra-conservatism, and to date I have not found any that subscribe to my rather eclectic set of beliefs. In addition, I also find that many people to be a bit of a distraction while performing magick. I don't dispute the fact that it does amplify the amount of power that can raised, and it does provide the student with a range of specializations to work with, etc., but if you're constantly distracted by the others or feel at all self-conscious, you just can't concentrate properly. And this doesn't even take into account people that may have a problem walking around naked in front of others, should that be the coven's particular habit.

I eventually made a decision to practice strictly as a solitary, and gave up looking for a coven a while ago, pledging instead to follow my heart and instincts. I've been strictly solitary for about 15 years, I guess, and I've never looked back once. Don't get me wrong: I still enjoy meeting other Wiccans and pagans and discussing philosophies and other bits of knowledge, and I hang out regularly with several pagan groups, but I enjoy the freedom to follow my own path.

Most covens are built upon a particular tradition, and most are vehemently against solitaries, which I feel is quite unfair. I would match my base of knowledge anytime against any coven member of any tradition, and I'm quite confident I could at least equal, if not surpass, most of their levels of both learning and achievement. I can certainly appreciate the fact that a true Gardnerian coven (or whatever tradition) does not want a neophyte "*******izing" the rituals which they find most holy, but that shouldn't extend to practicing other forms of the craft.

This disdain for solitaries, in my opinion, is as silly a notion as the Roman Catholic church believing that if you don't follow their particular beliefs, and believe in their particular saints, and participate in their particular ceremonies, then you are going to hell. In fact, I would even go so far as to say it even goes against the Wiccan Rede of harming none, as denying spiritual enlightenment to anyone is certainly harmful.

The one valid argument I can find for not practicing as a solitary is mostly for those new on the path. I have talked to many people who, quite simply, were completely wrong on how they interpreted some of the more advanced topics. This is where a more experienced teacher comes in handy, obviously, and exactly why forums like these are so valuable to everyone learning any sort of new path. Even after 25 years of study, I still have a lot of questions myself about various things, and the more views I can collect about a subject, and then assimilate, the better.

I'm sure some coven members on here can, and most certainly will, enlighten you on why they believe Wiccans should not practice as solitaries, and I would enjoy the debate, I'm sure.

I have gone to many festivals and group meetings and practiced with others, to great effect, I might add, but I for one don't like the idea of the "one set of rules for all" notion of most covens.

BUT... I can completely understand the idea of the covens trying to protect their particular base of knowledge. As I'm sure you are well aware, it takes many years for them to come up with the various tenets of their tradition, and they don't want to see it being handed out in some diluted fashion, quite possibly full of errors, to someone who has not actually earned the right to practice the various aspects of their particular tradition.

A perfect example of this sort of thing is the many newcomers who want to immediately start casting spells and call themselves a witch, but yet they can't even tell you the name of the sabbats or what they represent, much less the more intermediate teachings such as the elements, herbalism, etc.

Like Christianity, though, that is why there are so many different traditions. Each person needs to follow a path that makes sense and is comfortable to themselves, and I've personally researched several hundreds of Wiccan traditions, with only a select handful being in line with my own particular tenets.

I hope this helps you in your understanding, Celtaur.

[Clamhan]

There have been instances I've heard of where people become members of a Coven and things turn out not so well. I do not doubt that there are excellent covens which achieve great work through their group practices. But if I were to be Wiccan I do not think I'd be comfortable working with a group in the manner of a coven from instances I've heard of where ego's, negative intentions, etc., occurred. For me 13 people allows for too much possible conflict of interests.

Whilst I have never belonged to a Coven I do know that if you put together a group of different people the potential for problems is always there.

The strength of a Coven will depend on the HPS and HP in my view. A good HPS will be able to carefully select members that will fit the group and more importantly the group mind of the coven.

This applies to any group of people whether that be a Coven or a Druids Grove in my view.

[Rhinguld]

Hello, all!

I attained my 3rd Degree in Witchcraft in 1993.

I have been given the honor of earning my "Witches Garter" twice. To earn a garter, you are hired in by a group of Witches who wish to start their own Coven.

And you use your Wisdom and experience to get one that enriches and suits them best up and running smoothly. Then you gracefully remove yourself from the group and keep in contact should they ever need anything.

Having spent over three years in a Coven, and having created two in the late '90's that still exist today, I think that the truth about Covens is that there are really good Covens and there are really poor quality Covens.

The High Priest and High Priestess, their training and experience, and how involved they are with the health of the group plays a huge factor in how well the group does.

If the governmental sturcture and heirarchy is correctly formed, and then correctly followed, politics and "drama" are usually kept to a minimum or are at least manageable.

To eliminate any feelings that the other members presence is "distracting"., the group should regularly re-calibrate each member with the Groupmind of the Coven..I believe that if the Groupmind of the group is correctly solidified by interlocking the mind and Will of each member correctly, doing group Work with one's Coven should feel totally comfortable and natural and safe.

I disagree that "most" Coven Witches are "vehemently against Solitaries"...I agree that some are, but where I come from (and where I have created Covens) we are wise enough to know that our way is not the only way, and we also know that there is no ONE right way.

Vehemence against foreign ways is a step backwards in one's Spiritual Development, and that is the lesson those who so fiercely rally against the ways of others are esoterically in the process of learning.

Religion - be it Christianity, Witchcraft, Heathenry, whatever - exists for the purpose of evolving the human Soul to a higher level of Spiritual Wisdom. Since every Witch is at a different place in her Spiritual development, it would behoove Modern Witchcraft and Wicca to learn that we are on a Path of development, and no one should judge another's place on that path as wrong.

I strongly agree that new Witches should not isolate themselves, but should interact with reputable Witches. As a Witch who has taught over 55 students, I believe that Witchcraft must be taught to be preformed at it's most effective and potent level. I also believe that when the Student is ready, the Teacher will appear.

I hope that helps you...I send you all Frith...

Rhinguld

[elfstar]

Indeed, Clamhan, the HPS and HP of a Coven do certainly keep it all together and take great care in the selection of its members. I am presently HP in a Coven, and our membership process is quite beastly. We are not Wiccan; rather, we are a comparatively new Tradition in existence for merely four years. There is much to be taken into consideration when dealing with membership, and not often do we accept new members into our ranks.

As TheJedi has stated, many new to the Craft immediately become self-proclaimed Witches after merely one or two spells, which they should not be performing at all as they are new to the Craft, and it is quite doubtful that they know what they are doing. Our Coven receives many membership petitions from such "Witches," but they are immediately recognised because they can't answer simple questions pertaining to the Craft.

A Coven does not necessarily need 13 Witches to be called a Coven. Tis tradition, the 13. However, some Covens are comprised of as few as 4 Witches. I agree, as well, with what Rhinguld had to say pertaining to not all Covens being against the Solitary Witch. Ours certainly isn't.

[Clamhan]

As TheJedi has stated, many new to the Craft immediately become self-proclaimed Witches after merely one or two spells, which they should not be performing at all as they are new to the Craft, and it is quite doubtful that they know what they are doing. Our Coven receives many membership petitions from such "Witches," but they are immediately recognised because they can't answer simple questions pertaining to the Craft.

This is good to hear - I am friends with a HPS of some 30 years standing and she shares your sentiments completely. It is good that you have a selection criteria for admission and then and only then will they be able to join.

Some covens also have a training group attached to the main coven ran by either the HPS or someone with considerable experience - this also lets those that lack experience or are complete newbies to undergo some training and close supervision in any work they do.

Either way, its important to be selective.

Clamhan

[Steavis]

I have never been in what most people would call an official coven. I am only seventeen and still currently live with my Catholic parents. But thankfully I have two very good friends who are both Wiccan. Though I been studying since I was thirteen, I have not had an Elder teach me, it has mostly been just me.

So I was very grateful when the Goddess gave me two friends who were also very much like me, becoming interested in Wicca at a young age but never really having anyone to teach them. So we created a sort of coven of our own, doing the sabbats and esbats together and learning and teaching each other all we knew. To me, learning the mysteries of life is so much more fun and interesting because I have friends who can give me their advise and point of view. That is one of the reasons I joined this site, to learn from people who have seen more than I have.

[WillowRainMaker]

I've never felt the need to belong to a coven although I have been involved in a couple.In my case it's because I find it difficult to place complete trust in that many people. Personally I feel the need to have that trust before gettng into a circle or any type of magical working. The trust issue is a personal thing but having been burned a couple of times I'm much more cautious now.
I have found a few I am 100% comfortable working with,my hubby and my mother-in-law at present. Plus a couple of very good friends that are now many miles away. I like the number three for our informal "coven".
I would enjoy the fellowship and opportunities for sharing and learning that belonging to a larger group might provide,unfortunately I haven't found a group that could exist peacefull together for more than a short period of time. Too much ego and back stabbing for my taste.I'm not saying that it's impossible to have a coven where everyone gets along, just that it hasn't happened for me yet.

[Celtaur]

I've never felt the need to belong to a coven although I have been involved in a couple.In my case it's because I find it difficult to place complete trust in that many people. Personally I feel the need to have that trust before gettng into a circle or any type of magical working. The trust issue is a personal thing but having been burned a couple of times I'm much more cautious now.
I have found a few I am 100% comfortable working with,my hubby and my mother-in-law at present. Plus a couple of very good friends that are now many miles away. I like the number three for our informal "coven".
I would enjoy the fellowship and opportunities for sharing and learning that belonging to a larger group might provide,unfortunately I haven't found a group that could exist peacefull together for more than a short period of time. Too much ego and back stabbing for my taste.I'm not saying that it's impossible to have a coven where everyone gets along, just that it hasn't happened for me yet.

I too enjoy solitary work as I do not feel that I could have enough trust in others. People can have a variety of issues that cause clashing of personalities, and too often people are not willing to see the whole picture, only their own perspective, leading to egoic behaviour sadly. It's interesting how people are social animals, yet also working alone is quite desirable for many.

I know though, that some people are dependant on others in every day life, for if they are alone they haven't a clue what to do with themselves. I find covens interesting, the concept, but am unsure if I'd ever have the ability to join one. I think I would feel too vulnerable, and a loss of self control in a sense.

[tavthe]

Former Wiccan speaking here. When I was on that path, I had a small group of friends whom I worked with. But because of one person's vindictive personality, it ruined the idea of working with others for sometime. Just in the last couple of years I've attended a few coven rituals, oddly enough at the suggestion of my husband, who was curious and wanted to attend. I shrugged and went along with the idea. I wasn't thrilled the first time around, and started to warm up the on the second. I don't mind doing it. They're a pretty nice group of people. I couldn't ever consider joining their coven though, because we have very different ideologies when it comes to our spiritual paths. He learned that some of their practices really spoke to him, which was an amazing development in his spiritual search. But practicing with the coven was also useful for my search, because it reminded me of how important solitary practice is for me.