Martial Arts and Eastern Paths

[lawbrat]

A post to explore people's thoughts on the Eastern Paths-Martial Arts connection.

I have been a student of the martial arts since 1993. However, I was interested in Eastern Paths long before that. So by the time I actually started physical training, Zen and other Eastern thought was already deep within my consciousness.

The underlying connection between the two (Eastern Paths and martial arts) is strong, historically. Despite the fact that many modern teachers play down that spiritual connection to make it more palatable to Westerners. Virtually every traditional martial art has a claim (or many claims) that divine inspiration lead their founder to the innermost techniques of the style.

However in practice, I quickly found that much of today's martial arts instruction seems to have abandoned the parallel search for wisdom that traditional training contained. Instead, focus has turned to winning tournaments and making as much money as possible off of the students.

I always find joy and a sense of accomplishment in my training, but I have yet to walk out of a dojo in all these years feeling like a new level of spiritual awareness was reached. I'm told it's there to be found, but no one seems able or interested in showing the way. While I'm proud of the rank I've attained, the fights I've won, and the awards that have been bestowed, in the end it feels no more enlightening than if I had chosen to play a sport instead.

Has anyone else developed an interest in martial arts from study of eastern paths? Or became interested in eastern paths after studying martial arts? If so, do you feel like you have progressed along your path of enlightenment because of it? Any other thoughts?

[Morrigan]

I can't say that I've spent much time studying the Eastern paths--more of a cursory introduction to each (I'm rather ecclectic in that I tend to incorporate those 'truths' that speak to me, no matter what philosophy they teach) That being said, I find that I'm drawn to T'ai chi and chi gong more than any other...it's the emphasis on the meditative process of movement instead of the power of the strike that piques my interest. I study neither, but I am looking to find a school that will help me explore this avenue a little further.

What martial art(s) do you study, Lawbrat? I did study Aikido many years ago--the "mind/body" connection interested me--but I didn't find flipping people over (or being flipped over!) to be very conducive to the meditative mind state!

[lawbrat]

What martial art(s) do you study, Lawbrat? I did study Aikido many years ago--the "mind/body" connection interested me--but I didn't find flipping people over (or being flipped over!) to be very conducive to the meditative mind state!

I am a student and assistant intructor of Shorin-ryu karate. However I have also trained to various extents in Judo and Kendo, and have dabbled with a lesson here and there from friends who study Aikido and Praying Mantis Kung Fu. I'm a huge fan of martial arts, regardless of form or origin. I would love to get into Tai Chi one day because it would be more focused on mind/body connection than the style I study now.

I agree with you that getting thrown around doesn't teach you much in the way of esoteric wisdom.

[Gypsy Bladesmith]

Having been in the arts since 1969 I cannot remember when the visualization and meditation was not present. There was a time when the sport aspect was there but our intentions focused on self-defense. I started with Kempo and China. I joined with a couple friends and we started our own school. We added Tai Chi in the 70's. There is a lot of other arts thrown in there but when you been around long enough and start to understand the fundamentals you can look at almost any of the arts and see how they work. Body mechanics and awareness play a big part.

I didn't find flipping people over (or being flipped over!) to be very conducive to the meditative mind state!

I guess when you learn to focus on the moment and learn how to enter into the awareness of the situation, be it sport or defense, the meditative state just happens. The hard part is to still be aware of the everything else that is going on around you while still being focused on your opponent....or it could be that i just like being the thrower and sometimes the throwee.

Gypsy

[lawbrat]

Having been in the arts since 1969 I cannot remember when the visualization and meditation was not present. There was a time when the sport aspect was there but our intentions focused on self-defense. I started with Kempo and China. I joined with a couple friends and we started our own school. We added Tai Chi in the 70's. There is a lot of other arts thrown in there but when you been around long enough and start to understand the fundamentals you can look at almost any of the arts and see how they work. Body mechanics and awareness play a big part.

I didn't find flipping people over (or being flipped over!) to be very conducive to the meditative mind state!

I guess when you learn to focus on the moment and learn how to enter into the awareness of the situation, be it sport or defense, the meditative state just happens. The hard part is to still be aware of the everything else that is going on around you while still being focused on your opponent....or it could be that i just like being the thrower and sometimes the throwee.

Gypsy

Wow, you have a rich and interesting history in the Arts. Very cool.

When I'm in the sparring ring, I get this "look" that my fellow students always comment on. One that they say is intimidating, but not because it speaks of rage or hate. Rather, they refer to it as a "fierce awareness" or "fighting trance." I have always taken that to be an outward showing of the warrior spirit inside. But now that you mention it, I guess that state does take on a fluid, focused state of mind. Not necessarily "meditative" in the sense that it is peaceful. I guess "meditative" to my mind was more like "tranquil", but it does have the type of clarity and exclusion of all else that meditation tends to yield. Hmm, maybe I've overlooked something here...

[Gypsy Bladesmith]

I tend to think of meditation as focused intention...Be it towards eliminating all distraction or just those necessary at the time. Some call it the zone. Sometimes when in that state I don't even remember what actions were taken until afterward. I just let things happen without thought because thinking about things seems to slow things down. When you decide to live the art somehow the mind body connection just knows what to do....even when that is nothing.
Tai Chi is wonderful at teaching sensitivity. Hope you can find someone to teach you. It can be one of the most effective arts and will enhance whatever you already know.

Gypsy

[Brownbat]

Lawbrat--Your comment about a "tranquil" state of mind in the midst of activity reminded me of something I read years ago. John Brodie, who was an NFL quarterback said in an interview that when he was at his best "everyone else on the field seemed to moving in slow motion." I experienced this playing baseball, when, on a few rare occasions, when I was batting, the pitch seemed to moving in slow motion, I could watch it, judge its speed, its spin, its location and still react at normal speed. I hadn't thought about this in a long time until this past year when I read an interview with Josh Waitzkin (the boy from "Searching for Bobby Fischer"), who left competitive chess and has become a champion at competitive Tai Chi. He mentioned this concept of reaching a level of concentration that time slows down. My sense is that such experiences may not be spiritual in the traditional sense, but that they do represent the attainment of a certain level of deep consciousness.

Brownbat.

[dpa]

A post to explore people's thoughts on the Eastern Paths-Martial Arts connection.

I have been a student of the martial arts since 1993. However, I was interested in Eastern Paths long before that. So by the time I actually started physical training, Zen and other Eastern thought was already deep within my consciousness.

The underlying connection between the two (Eastern Paths and martial arts) is strong, historically. Despite the fact that many modern teachers play down that spiritual connection to make it more palatable to Westerners. Virtually every traditional martial art has a claim (or many claims) that divine inspiration lead their founder to the innermost techniques of the style.

However in practice, I quickly found that much of today's martial arts instruction seems to have abandoned the parallel search for wisdom that traditional training contained. Instead, focus has turned to winning tournaments and making as much money as possible off of the students.

I always find joy and a sense of accomplishment in my training, but I have yet to walk out of a dojo in all these years feeling like a new level of spiritual awareness was reached. I'm told it's there to be found, but no one seems able or interested in showing the way. While I'm proud of the rank I've attained, the fights I've won, and the awards that have been bestowed, in the end it feels no more enlightening than if I had chosen to play a sport instead.

Has anyone else developed an interest in martial arts from study of eastern paths? Or became interested in eastern paths after studying martial arts? If so, do you feel like you have progressed along your path of enlightenment because of it? Any other thoughts?

I myself to am a student of martial arts for many years different teachers and I do agree in what you mean when you say. I have yet to walk out of a dojo in all these years feeling like a new level of spiritual awareness was reached. After leaving the dojo I leave my frustrations behind and knowing at least I got a pretty decent workout.
In a dojo we train with many different types of people some have different back grounds and some none at all. It was the competition in the arts that took me away from the path in the spiritual awareness. If I compete I compete to win this way can sometimes really take one off course. As student one can train and compete earn recognition fake gold plated trophy's and medals only to pass down what has been learned and what will be passed down to the next generation of martial artists. Does this really carry any true meaning? For the ego yes spiritual awareness no.
Training with others is great because it helps us in other areas in life and in the art it helps us open up to different kinds of awareness.
But to be honest and to share my experience that may help answer your question
After leaving the dojo for a long while and continued my training under my own guidance, their was when I found the spiritual awareness. My training took a whole new shape I became my own student spiritual awareness became my teacher.

[lawbrat]

I myself to am a student of martial arts for many years different teachers and I do agree in what you mean when you say. I have yet to walk out of a dojo in all these years feeling like a new level of spiritual awareness was reached. After leaving the dojo I leave my frustrations behind and knowing at least I got a pretty decent workout.

This is a topic that I am very glad I wrote about in the arcanum. The responses I have gotten have sounded fairly similar to my experiences, and have given me a feeling of not being alone in this. Plus reassurance I wasn't missing the boat on something that others were getting. So thanks for that everyone.

I guess before I started learning martial arts, I kinda bought into the whole mysticism aspect that is played up by the movies. I didn't think I would learn to throw fireballs, or break through steel with a bare finger, but I guess I honestly thought that I would attain some new level of spiritual enlightenment after awhile. Never happened. This is in no way to say that I got nothing positive out of my time in the dojo. I learned a great deal of self-reliance, gained confidence, and made dear friends. And I can say with humility that I learned how to become a competent fighter (in, and out of, the ring) without getting sucked into the competition trap. I hear you on the whole 'everyone at tournaments gets on an ego-trip' aspect **************. Congrats on getting yourself free of all that.

In light of this new realization, the next time I am able to return to training I will approach things differently. Instead of looking for something that my teachers/style/dojo community cannot offer, I will simply focus on the myriad of other benefits that it does offer.

[Echo]

I've never had anything to do with martial arts, personally, so can't comment from direct experience. I can only say that most I know would agree with you, but that there are one or two of my friends who have found the arts their personal key to spirituality. And I wonder if this is the case.. that each of us has a particular 'resonance' with a particular path. Perhaps it is, as the theory goes, linked to the paths we have followed in previous lifetimes for some.. and initiate is said always to return to their own tradition for example. The friends who have found their way through martial arts have also been drawn towards the eastern systems of faith and spirituality.