Martial Arts and Eastern Paths

[dpa]

I look at martial arts as an outlet a way to channel and learn to control negative emotions lets face it with everyday life can be challenging their are ups and downs going through the superficial demands of society can be a roller coaster ride sometimes is not fun but yes in some ways we choose this way. Everyone has their outlets musicians play music, artists paint, body builders go to the gym et cetera.

It`s natural for people who have found their way through martial arts and adopt eastern systems of faith and spirituality because it part of the culture where it originally came from it`s the influence.
Like the uncarved block is formless yet it has within it the potential for all forms once the block is carved their will me names.

[lawrenceyoung]

I too have wandered this path. I was lucky enough to have my Zen teacher become my Aikido and Judo Sensei, so the link between the physical and the spiritual was always a part of my learning. I do think it is a bit sad that the spiritual element is frowned upon in most dojos in the states. I believe that they are inseperable, two sides of the same coin. Without one, the other becomes less than its part in the whole. Of course, this is merely the ramblings of an idealist

[dpa]

I too have wandered this path. I was lucky enough to have my Zen teacher become my Aikido and Judo Sensei, so the link between the physical and the spiritual was always a part of my learning. I do think it is a bit sad that the spiritual element is frowned upon in most dojos in the states. I believe that they are inseperable, two sides of the same coin. Without one, the other becomes less than its part in the whole. Of course, this is merely the ramblings of an idealist

Hello Lawrenceyoung

A Zen teacher teaching martial arts is quite a lucky combination from their you are able to receive the physical discipline along with the spiritual wisdom. Its true many schools in north america only focus on the competition aspect of the martial arts, you train to win their is nothing spiritual about that. This seems to be a natural system people are attracted to, its business. The martial art stunts on films and the aggressive competitions that are promoted in the UFC events are becoming the new wave of what martial art schools are teaching, these new systems are what is making money. This seems to be the system people want to learn.

[Celtaur]

I have watched UFC a number of times and it is brutal, but when you get into it, its very energizing and competitive. I think it brings the animal out, and yes it would be somewhat akin to the Roman Coliseum acts, just without the death element. I was into watching it a few months ago, but then suddenly I just lost interest. Even while watching it, I realized it was a brutally low form of consciousness, and doesn't seem anything of what martial arts is in its magical/spiritual/energy sense. Yes some of the fighters were into martial arts, but surely to be in these types of competitions their must have been just the sense of doing it for the money. Brutally fighting for money - very root chakra oriented.

I like the concepts of martial arts in their energetic sense of working with chi, and perceiving the reality of competition in the sense of working with and manipulating energy.

[dpa]

I have watched UFC a number of times and it is brutal, but when you get into it, its very energizing and competitive. I think it brings the animal out, and yes it would be somewhat akin to the Roman Coliseum acts, just without the death element. I was into watching it a few months ago, but then suddenly I just lost interest. Even while watching it, I realized it was a brutally low form of consciousness, and doesn't seem anything of what martial arts is in its magical/spiritual/energy sense. Yes some of the fighters were into martial arts, but surely to be in these types of competitions their must have been just the sense of doing it for the money. Brutally fighting for money - very root chakra oriented.

I like the concepts of martial arts in their energetic sense of working with chi, and perceiving the reality of competition in the sense of working with and manipulating energy.

So true Celtaur it is a very low level of consciousness to go out their and make a living fighting beating up others who have the same goal it really is pointless. Anyone who has a high level of consciousness knows and understands what love is. To be a professional fighter and compete in events like this your mind has to be focused on fighting yet not attached to it. When The UFC first came out in the early 90's it started out as a tournament to discover the world's best fighting style, an 8 man fighting event where the best fighter won. A single fighter would have to fight more than once in a no holds bar type of bought with very little rules. From their the UFC exploded into main stream started by Art Davie & Rorion Gracie. They came out with the idea of the UFC to prove the superiority of the Gracie Brazilian jujitsu system. Back then it was a style vs. style event and after Royce Gracie repeatedly won the fights proving the superiority of his fathers jujitsu system the UFC took a whole new form. Fighters would start to learn the Gracie jujitsu art and incorporate it into their own system. Now when you watch the UFC it's no longer karate vs. kung-fu its a more mixed kick boxing grappling type style of fighting. Now with the new wave of fighters like professional wrestler Brock Lesnar who now dominates the octagon with his size and brut force the UFC will soon take a whole new turn in a larger arena of mainstream competition fighting.

I picked up a book Karate My Way of Life by Gichin Funakoshi. Sensei Funakoshi was a great Karate student master who very well recreated the art of the way of the open hand (karate) Reading sensei Funskoshi's book he speaks of his way of life as a student of karate and teacher. Learning karate in his day was like going to a boys scout. Martial art lessons was in a esoteric nature where students would learn more than how to block, punch, & kick boys learned how to become men. Not in the sense of what today's schools teach or what events like the UFC demonstrate in building up the dominate male ego. In sensei Funakoshi's days a Karate student would learn to become one with the elements. A serious martial art student would learn how to live a spiritual way of life, they would abstain from unhealthy foods, liquids, & meaningless sexual relationships. This method is used to keep the student focused and to build the practitioners level of chi. Very different from the training of today's northern martial arts schools that have become franchised into what is now called a Mcdogo, the kind of school where people go to learn some kind of self defense to protect them selves or get a high impact aerobic work out. These schools do a have a benefit but the martial art systems are watered down, this is mainly because the average north american does not adapt very well to the esoteric teachings a Martial art has to offer. But in reality and in any esoteric practice the way of life is all part of the esoteric teachings.
Their was a story sensei Funakoshi told in his book and I would like to tell it here on this tread because it gives the mind the true sense of the way a Martial art was once taught.

Meeting With The Viper

I went one night to the house of Master Azato for a karate practice session. This occurred several years after my marriage, and I asked my eldest son, then in primary school, to accompany me and carry the little lantern that lighted our way though the island night. As we were walking through
Saka****a, between Naha and Shuri, we passed an old temple dedicated to the ancient and much venerated Goddess of Mercy, called Kannon in modern Japanese, Just after we passed her temple I spied in the middle of the road an object that I first took to be hose droppings, but as we drew nearer I realized that what I was looking at was alive and not only alive but coiled to strike, glaring angrily at the two intruders. When my young son saw those two piercing eyes glittering in the night and then, by the light of the lantern, that sharp red tongue darting out, he shrieked in terror and threw himself upon me, clutching my thighs in his fear. I quickly thrust him behind me, grabbed the lantern from him, and began to swing it slowly from right to left, keeping my own eyes riveted to those of the Viper. I cannot, of course, say how long this went on, but at last the snake, still glaring at me, slithered off into the darken of a nearby potato field. It was only then that I could see how very long and thick that viper was.
I had naturally often seen vipers before, but never until that night had I seen one coiled to strike. Knowing as every Okinawan does, their unpleasant habits, I very much doubted that it would slither off quite so submissively frightened though I was I held the lantern in front of me as I crept into the field in search of the snake. I soon saw the those two glistening eyes reflected in the light of the lantern and realized that the viper was indeed expecting me. It had set its trap and was now waiting for me to spring it. Fortunately, seeing me and seeing that swinging lantern, the snake abandoned his attack and this time disappeared for good into the darkness of the the field. It seemed to me that I had leaned an important lesson from that viper. As we continued on our way toward Azato's house I said to my son, We all knew about the vipers persistence. But this time that was not the danger. The viper we encountered appears to be familiar with the tactics of karate, and when it slid off into the field it was not running away from us. It was preparing for an attack. That viper understands very well the spirit of karate.

[Celtaur]

Very different from the training of today's northern martial arts schools that have become franchised into what is now called a Mcdogo, the kind of school where people go to learn some kind of self defense to protect them selves or get a high impact aerobic work out.

This reminds me of the way the mainstream media projects a perception to the general public about Yoga being about stretching and exercise. A very western perception of yoga, creates an illusion about what it is, and hides the real depth of it in purpose and opportunity for experience. With the west being ego dominant and exoteric in most all of its facets, it is of course not surprising, but yet disappointing. I have noticed though however, that when going to most Yoga studios they do bring about the spiritual element, likely not what those who are familiar with yoga from the media would expect. I nearly cringe when I see an infomercial or video of yoga with the host wearing bright flourescent leotards and leg warmers with pop music pumping in the background... this may be an exaggeration but not far from it. I think pilates has become popular in the west because it focuses (in the western version) on toning the body, devoted to the results of egoic self gratification and mirror poses.

I remember when I was younger I had a friend who was into jeet-kun-do (not sure of the spelling there) and he was into eastern philosophies. Regrettably, I was as conditioned in ignorance as could be in Christian exotericism and was very judgmental of the philosophical beliefs of my friend (in which of course I knew little about at the time thus closed minded). I didn't understand his perspective and I came across as many do, with a very hard core stance in my beliefs, and it saddens me that I was so under the veil and unable to be more kind in that respect. I've come a very long way, with a completely different perspective on life. I could hope that the western martial arts don't devolve away from their spiritual core by being sucked into the mainstream tendencies the west pushes. It is quite sad that in the name of democracy so much culture is lost and superficiality becomes the norm, which is so sadly empty. I wonder if the slow progression from the spiritual traditions generation to generation of teachers in martial arts will morph the practices into empty shells in the name of money and superficial results.

[dpa]

This reminds me of the way the mainstream media projects a perception to the general public about Yoga being about stretching and exercise. A very western perception of yoga, creates an illusion about what it is, and hides the real depth of it in purpose and opportunity for experience. With the west being ego dominant and exoteric in most all of its facets, it is of course not surprising, but yet disappointing. I have noticed though however, that when going to most Yoga studios they do bring about the spiritual element, likely not what those who are familiar with yoga from the media would expect. I nearly cringe when I see an infomercial or video of yoga with the host wearing bright flourescent leotards and leg warmers with pop music pumping in the background... this may be an exaggeration but not far from it. I think pilates has become popular in the west because it focuses (in the western version) on toning the body, devoted to the results of egoic self gratification and mirror poses.

I would imagine in the beginning the idea of a spiritual way of life in these practices were present but as time goes on the fads come and go and rent needs to get paid, a life style with dreams wanting to come true also need to be fulfilled can get in the way of spiritual growth. Also to the esoteric disciplines that are taught in the east are part of their culture and the diversity in the west dissolve this way of life.

I remember when I was younger I had a friend who was into jeet-kun-do (not sure of the spelling there) and he was into eastern philosophies. Regrettably, I was as conditioned in ignorance as could be in Christian exotericism and was very judgmental of the philosophical beliefs of my friend (in which of course I knew little about at the time thus closed minded). I didn't understand his perspective and I came across as many do, with a very hard core stance in my beliefs, and it saddens me that I was so under the veil and unable to be more kind in that respect. I've come a very long way, with a completely different perspective on life. I could hope that the western martial arts don't devolve away from their spiritual core by being sucked into the mainstream tendencies the west pushes. It is quite sad that in the name of democracy so much culture is lost and superficiality becomes the norm, which is so sadly empty. I wonder if the slow progression from the spiritual traditions generation to generation of teachers in martial arts will morph the practices into empty shells in the name of money and superficial results.

This is quite common Celtuar and many so called christians do cast negative beliefs towards others who are not christians or who chose a different way of spiritual life. My self as a practitioner in martial arts I have found these same obstacles in my training and understanding because not all martial arts are trained in the same light. And after reaching a cretin level of understanding I have ventured into other styles and found my self starting all over again. Again it all comes down to the frame of mind. People who reach a level of black belt, 2nd, & 3rd dan (exct ) and go to train in a different school with a different system find it difficult because they are no longer a black belt they are a white belt again and this can be quite hindering in the beginning because the frame of mind was not conditioned to the truth of what a black belt represents.
The belt system is sometimes looked at in the wong direction a way to obtain power this is the mind set here in the western world.
I once trained in a well known Jujitsu school and I can tell you the ego their was quite unimaginable. One of the head senseis said with a enthusiastic cocky attitude to me a black belt is a way of life and I said to him no the art of Jujitsu is a way of life the belt was used to hold my pants. He said nothing after I said that. I'll be honest I didn't stay their long. But in the philosophy in the belt system a student has to understand you start out as a white belt this identifies your innocence and truth into the art, you train and work hard and obtain that level of black belt this is a 3 to 4 year initiation phase. Once you obtain that level of black belt only their have you come to the beginning of your training (if you have found the right kind of teacher). The black belt is the true beginning in martial arts because your goal now is to turn it white again, and this can take a life time.

[lawbrat]

But in the philosophy in the belt system a student has to understand you start out as a white belt this identifies your innocence and truth into the art, you train and work hard and obtain that level of black belt this is a 3 to 4 year initiation phase. Once you obtain that level of black belt only their have you come to the beginning of your training (if you have found the right kind of teacher). The black belt is the true beginning in martial arts because your goal now is to turn it white again, and this can take a life time.

************** has this exactly correct. As one master once said "first you must learn karate-do, and then you must forget karate-do." The goal is to take those hard learned lessons and incorporate them into yourself so that they are automatic. This is how we take that which was presented to us as external and make it an internal part of ourselves. Sadly though, in the McDojo era, we rarely get the inner, deeper meaning behind those lessons that was meant to be internalized as well. In some abyssmal cases, students barely get any guidance not to use these new physical capacities they are learning for bullying or showing off. I fear this trend of dumbing-down the art by removing the esoteric will continue to leech that 'other half' of martial training out of our society until martial arts in the Western world become little more than boxing or wrestling; a bare combat system used for sport (UFC, tournaments, etc.) or for bullying.

However, as an aside, one thing I am grateful to UFC and the Gracies for is that martial arts is gaining more visibility and credibility in the States than it has probably ever enjoyed. Sadly, part of this is that it is being watered-down to meet the tastes of the average American. But regardless, I am glad that now more people are able to see this tradition as a viable alternative to other activities, and may even get some culture or widsom along the way. I remember when I first started training in Shorin-Ryu Karate back in the early 90's. People in the bowling alley attached to our dojo used to openly mock us by making Bruce Lee-like "waa-taah" noises, or try to pick fights to "expose" us as kooks and frauds. At least now people are looking at martial arts less as a joke than they used to. And perhaps a few more people who otherwise would have had no access to an esoteric path will find a good sensei like the one ************** has and become closter to enlightenment?

[TruthSeeker]

Has anyone else developed an interest in martial arts from study of eastern paths? Or became interested in eastern paths after studying martial arts? If so, do you feel like you have progressed along your path of enlightenment because of it? Any other thoughts?

For me... I don't recall which came first. I was interested in the martial arts and Eastern paths as far back as I can remember. When I was a kid, I bought books on the martial arts - we couldn't afford formal training - and it was within the pages of one of those books that I got my first taste of Eastern thought... via the Yin-Yang symbol. I recall, being just a small child, staring at that image for long periods... it was as if, in that one symbol, I saw all the answers. (I'm 47 now, and the symbol is tattooed on my body in two places... so far.)

As I got older and could afford formal training in the martial arts, I dedicated much of my own time to the spiritual aspects. (Most martial arts schools don't seem to teach that.)

I've spent many years now exploring paganism - ancient and modern - and I've learned much from it. Still... there is no "ritual" that means as much to me as those that are intertwined with my martial arts training. To me, I s'pose, they have become one and the same.