12, signs and hours.

[Celtaur]

I'm just wondering if there is any significance to why 12 is the chosen number in Astrology. We've heard of the 13th sign, which is no longer in common use in Western Astrology. 3 and 4 divide into 12 easily - 4 elements, 3 cardinals. Any significance as to using the multiple of 4 and 3 for convenience?

Surely there are so many possible combinations of stars to create a myth and sign around. So why 12?

Does it have to do with the significance of 60 degrees being divisible by 12? 60 minutes, 12 hours surely having astrological roots.

[Haruth]

Strangely...

The root goes back to the earliest counting systems which were derived independantly by the merchants of Egypt, Sumeria and Babylon.

When you leave the derivation of a counting system to the merchants (because, lets face it... the rest of us have no real vested interest, other than to be able to ensure that the merchants aren't conning us out of our hard earned groats...) you invariably end up with a duodecimal system (base 12) as this number is ideally suited to splitting up large 'loads' into consecutively smaller saleable lots (and subdividing these also).

What on earth is he talking about now?

Well, as the only way of ensuring fairness in 'splitting' a load was the use of scales, a base 12 counting system is ideal. Due to the number of non trivial factors it contains (2, 3, 4, 6) all of the elementary fractions (1/2, 1/3, 2/3, 1/4 and 3/4) can be readily extracted from the 'load', without causing a consumer complaint.

Anyhoo... along come the priest astrologer chappies. Too late, the number system is already in place! And voila - 12 hours of light, 12 hours of darkness, 12 months of the year, 12 constellations (which is particularly handy, as 12 is also a factor of 60 (as you have pointed out), the basis for the much older sexagesimal counting system which reached it's zenith in Babylon... hence 60 minutes in an hour, also in a degree...etc. But that's another thread...:P).

And I immediatley apologise... you won't find this in any reference books...

Please discount immediately as nonsense, but it is the only way that I can personally rationalise it...

[Merlyn]

Of course, there's always The Council of Twelve, The Brotherhood of Light.

They represent an Oversoul group who lovingly overlook/oversee the planetary and universal raising of Christ consciousness, advising and assisting when called upon to do so.

Much of my channelled writing comes through from them, having made a profound connection with them during an NDE in my early life.

Some of the messages are quite profound, but always understandable and always leaving the way open for our 'free will' to decide whether or not to act upon their advice.

[brifae]

12 is the strong solar count, with 13 being the goddess

[no name]

Strangely...

The root goes back to the earliest counting systems which were derived independantly by the merchants of Egypt, Sumeria and Babylon.

When you leave the derivation of a counting system to the merchants (because, lets face it... the rest of us have no real vested interest, other than to be able to ensure that the merchants aren't conning us out of our hard earned groats...) you invariably end up with a duodecimal system (base 12) as this number is ideally suited to splitting up large 'loads' into consecutively smaller saleable lots (and subdividing these also).

What on earth is he talking about now?

Well, as the only way of ensuring fairness in 'splitting' a load was the use of scales, a base 12 counting system is ideal. Due to the number of non trivial factors it contains (2, 3, 4, 6) all of the elementary fractions (1/2, 1/3, 2/3, 1/4 and 3/4) can be readily extracted from the 'load', without causing a consumer complaint.

Anyhoo... along come the priest astrologer chappies. Too late, the number system is already in place! And voila - 12 hours of light, 12 hours of darkness, 12 months of the year, 12 constellations (which is particularly handy, as 12 is also a factor of 60 (as you have pointed out), the basis for the much older sexagesimal counting system which reached it's zenith in Babylon... hence 60 minutes in an hour, also in a degree...etc. But that's another thread...:P).

And I immediatley apologise... you won't find this in any reference books...

Please discount immediately as nonsense, but it is the only way that I can personally rationalise it...

Its not nonsense. Its brilliant! Do you realise how many people have pondered that for how long? I haven't found it in any reference books either...
I think it is entirely valid. I think you can use the 'Power of Right Thinking'. So therefore I am giving you credit for a discovery . And its sensible and rational!
This is exactly the sort of thing I signed up to the forum for, thank you!
Hhere is a little jem for you - my take on it; why base 12? Look at your hand. Count to 9 on your hands. Hold up 9 digits to show '9' to someone who is some distance away. Now try it with the number 87. A little difficult.

Now look at your hands again, forget the thumbs they are the counters. Touch the tip of the the thumb to the tip of the index finger on right hand. That
signifies the number 1. Now touch the middle part of the finger, between the two joints, with the thumb - 2, the lower part -3. The top part of the ring finger - 4 .... the lowest part of the little finger 12. Now, using the other hand touch the thumb to the tip of the index finger - 12. Hold that. Go back to the other hand touch the thunb to the tip of the index, look at both hands, there is the sign for 13. and so on. The left hand finger portions show 12, 24, 36, and so on up to 'one gross' - 144.
Look at your hand, there it is; the devisions of 12, three finger segments (the 3 divisions - fixed, cardinal and mutible0 and the four fingers, the four elements.
Also I can imagine a worker on some ancient noisy dock signaling to someone in the distance. How many jars of oil? He does a quick count and holds both hands up in a 'mudra'. Ah .... 47!
I doubt thats in a book anywhere too. If it is I haven't found it. But it may be out there.
It seems to make sense that counting proportions were developed by natural observations.