Freemasonry, Geometry, God and the Goat

[Hiram]

"I am interested to keep the ancient and accepted rite uncontaminated, in our country at least from the leprosy of negro associations."

I warrant you that his terminology in this specific sentence is not the most tolerant, however neither were the times in which he lived. He is a product of the environment of his upbringing. You must also realize that his main fear and perhaps the true root of his hostility in this case was not so much the color of a mans skin, but he feared that Freemasonry would become "watered down". The America of yesterday was not the America of today and few African Americans were privileged with education. Masonry is the pursuit of light and wisdom and he feared that to bring uneducated slaves into masonry would be a step backwards and counterproductive to all his promotional efforts (and though I disagree with him on this point, he is entitled to that opinion).

"Note that the Supreme Grand Commander of the United Supreme Council (Sept. 14, 1887 - d. Oct. 18, 1904), Southern Jurisdiction, Prince Hall Affiliation, Thornton A. Jackson, was a personal friend of Albert Pike’s. Pike presented Jackson with a complete set of his rituals for use by the Prince Hall Scottish Rite"

^ That does not sound, to me anyways, like someone a white supremacist / kkk member would want to affiliate with...

Are you even reading my posts because comments like this make me wonder:

"The prince hall and silver star lodges are not regular and equal lodges as the old boys club."

Ive already posted this quote in this thread but here it is again...
"Prince Hall Lodge was as regular a Lodge as any Lodge created by competent authority. It had a perfect right to establish other Lodges and make itself a Mother Lodge."

Also I should note that I am not familiar with any "silver star" branch but if you mean The Order of the Eastern Star then you should know:

"On August 10, 1874, Thornton Andrew Jackson [Pikes buddy] received the several degrees of the Rite of Adoption of the Order of the Eastern Star from Brother C.B. Case, a Deputy and agent of Illustrious Robert Macoy 33, Supreme Patron of the Rite of Adoption of the World. In addition, Thornton Jackson also received a letter from Bro. C. B. Case granting him the authority to establish chapters of the Eastern Star among eligible black women. In obedience to the authority granted by William H. Myers, Grand Master, Union Grand Lodge, Jurisdiction of the District of Columbia, Bro. Jackson established the first Eastern Star Chapter among black women in the United States."

Prince Hall Masonry as well as The Order of the Eastern Star are most certainly NOT viewed as inferior, and I am sure you would offend many people by suggesting that. Just as there are different denominations of churchs (catholic, protestant, african american...etc), so too are there different branches of masonry. Masonry in truth HAS NO HEAD! Most states have Grand Lodges that organize the smaller lodges but many things can differ from state to state and country to country. So I find it funny how people make claims about global conspiracy when there is so much disagreement among masonic teachings from state to state, and lodge to lodge. So whatever this "old boys club" is, I am not familiar with it.

I encourage you (and everyone else reading this thread) to read through these two web pages that contrast and compare both sides of the Pike argument and use your reasoning skills (ever heard of Occam's razor?) to deduce the most likely truth.

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/kkk.html

&

http://aristotle.net/~russjohn/literary/pikerant.html

All of the points raised in your posts and the conspiracy links you provided are confronted and explained (far more reasonably) in those two web pages.Of course rioting around with the rest of the foil hats is more fun than history isnt it? I think it is safe to say we are polar opposites on this matter and that we should just agree to disagree. Albert Pike was a respected statesman, a genius scholar, and a gentleman to the core. I wash my hands of your madness.

[Celtaur]

Here is a fascinating interview I heard last month on the radio. The discussion above reminded me of this. The interview is with Daryl Davis, an African American, who interviewed the KKK, and learned a lot about them, as well as taught them a lot as he interacted with them as he wrote his book. The interview discussion begins with Daryl at the 20 minute mark of the audio file on this page... http://www.cbc.ca/dnto/news-promo/20...met-the-enemy/

[Hiram]

Mr. Davis is a brave man. Its good to hear those kinds of stories. There is far too much darkness in the world these days, but that just means that these small rays of hope shine even brighter.

[brifae]

Yes, LUCIFER IS GOD, and unfortunately Adonay is also god. ... In Morals and Dogma, Mr. Pike argues that Lucifer IS the one "who bears the light. ..

[nospoplusiunctum]

And this is what happens when you let the uninitiated glance at the sacred teachings of any society - they pervert them and turn them into another form of idolatry. Deforming a sacred science to an act of amusement for the simple mind. May these people never grace the temple - lest all our teachings will be lost.

Albert Pike is rolling in his grave

[Celtaur]

I think learning is always a process and with an open mind we can all grow. If one wants to share something to enlighten me, I'm listening. I think when anyone is willing to listen, as I think many are here, we all benefit. I think there's always more that can be unveiled about what's true, what's hidden, and what's been misinterpreted, etc.

[brifae]

And they do not care to explain those 'misunderstandings' which perpetrate, others are inferior to them as mundane/cattle..pearls before swine/ivory towers....not willing to illuminate others doesnt add much to the conversation than denials or even in this form as a trend lately. I lead by example and teach what i know without elitism/ hoarding the gold for myself whether i have more to learn or not.
/i think many of them have no idea themselves, which denotes their structure, I have my own ideas about lucifer.
If you talk to george washington beyond the grave he is a much apologetic spirit, A.Pike, probably not, but i would not conjure him so let me know if he is indeed rolling

[Hiram]

Celtaur you hit the nail on the head.

Nospoplusinunctum I understand your frustration, believe me, but remember to keep your passions within due bounds. Arguing will only serve to provide conspirators ammunition in their jihad against masonry. They poke and poke and provoke, until a retaliation is given and then play the unassuming victim.

brifae i have been more than patient with your conspiratorial accusations. In fact ive already told you about the hoax involving Albert Pike being a Palladist perpetrated by Leo Taxil. Yet still you press the same topic, as if what I say holds no water in your mind.

PLEASE ACTUALLY READ THIS! (above(remove this)topsecret[dot]com/forum/thread73158/pg1)

It is not some false sense of presumed superiority that creates our frustration with your claims. Nor is it a sense of elitism...masonry is about bringing all mankind into an existence of wisdom and brotherly love. However, when the mass of misinformed masonophobes continue to press the same topic again and again it begins to irritate. We are still just human and can only take so much abuse before nerves are snapped.

"Better be ignorant of a matter than half know it."
Publilius Syrus

You watch youtube videos and you read your conspiring forums and you make conclusions on matters you know little to nothing about. You presume and make accusations while quoting illegitimate references. I am not asking you to stop discussion on these matters, in fact these topics are some of my favorite ones to discuss. But i will not sit idle and let you deface the institution of masonry with your slander that is propagated by a mass of half-informed zombies that rehash old topics to the point of insanity. You smudge the truth to support your own conclusions, even when a more logical answer is staring you right in the face if you would but look for it... You create your own demons, and the monsters under your bed are rearing their ugly heads. You do not inquire objectively, you accuse...unjustly.

You seem to quote from Morals and Dogma fairly liberally...tell me have you actually read it? i believe there is a thread on this very site with a digital copy available for free...my advice is you use it. NO WAIT DONT! it might brainwash you into a rational human being!!!

[nventr]

IMO only that which cannot be discussed or symbolized can truly be called God. That which is, is ONE. All religions and belief systems work to experience the same divinity.


However, how would any of us learn if we did not use words or symbols?


Just as the snake/Satan is evil to the creative personality, so is lightning/Lucifer evil to the intellectual personality.

Freemasonry is an intellectual based system. The Goddess traditions are creative based systems.



What is good for the goose is NOT good for the gander.



So, in this case both of you are right from your point of view. AND Both of you are wrong from the other point of view.


The road runs both ways.


I beg everyone, "Please work to understand and at minimum respect the opposite point of view. It is only by understanding this simple duality that our world will come to peace. Until then, the tension, bickering, and all out war will continue “

[Hiram]

i agree nventr. i am always careful to respect the views and beliefs of others. i agree perhaps im being less than civil in this case however i am not the only one in this thread who feels assaulted by brifaes remarks. she will throw out unsubstantiated quotes and come to ridiculous accusations based thereof. if it was an enquiry made of an objective mind with a desire to know the truth i would be more behaved. instead she comes to the thread with preconceived notions and has on more than one occasion brought up the same issue that ive attempted to clarify previously in the thread. perhaps im taking things too seriously but it is this unabashed misinformation that spawns and spurs the current masonophobia rampant in society today. i beg no forgiveness for my words.