Freemasonry, Geometry, God and the Goat

[brifae]

Yes i have read morals and dogma sounds like a christian saying have you actually read the bible, when you have more than once.

I only hear more denials and no explanations, there was a little about A pike. My acccusations go beyond paxil there were many references.The quotes are not unsubstantiated they are from your own works or well documented. It is a forum up for others to discuss. One fledgling here said we dont use baphomet and i proved them wrong including hiram came here and said yes we do but its misunderstood.

I have not personally assaulted anyone with words, wheras the masonic groups called me insane and an assaulter. I have carried myself with leo regal dignity, and i forgive you. But i will resist tyranny, a conspiracy is two or more people coming together to do something against society, and since almost all presidents have been masons and hold high positions, one has to scrutinize and to be called crazy is their first weapon of defence, defamation to keep the normalcy of power structure. I said again not all masons are evil like all catholics compared to the vatican. You are deluded not to see mass mind control.

To clarify for a second time i am biased against all forms of accepted organized religion because i feel they have been corrupted, so i equally distrust all systems. I am willing to listen masons, but i know you are unwilling to discuss , just deny, whether or not it goes against your oaths, you can still teach without giving out the "goose" This is Celtaur's thread. Lets see you start some threads on your theology and magic for once, i will respond will a curious nonaccusatory mind, but will still quote others so dont take offense, take time to explain not deny, be more balanced, maybe do a middle pillar before you respond. Ball is in your court.

[nospoplusiunctum]

I'm sorry but you have been passively insulting those who actually hold Masonry close to their hearts and for me its been in my family for generations and your assaulting apart of my heritage in your thoughtless words. I'm going to be very forward with you, its either that you haven't read Morals and Dogma or you failed to absorb its message as it is a very complicated book. This is easy to detect because the quotes you take from it have nothing to do with the sentence its found in (therefore its out of context) and is twisted to fit YOUR message about Masonry, not Albert Pike's. I have read alot of your posts and it seems you have no substantial knowledge of Masonry or its teachings, and that what you have to say about it are assumptions that have no direct evidence ce or even relevance to Masonic History. Its easy to dismiss what your saying because it can be found on abundant conspiracy websites and cannot even be entertained as facts.

Masonry has very beautiful teachings. I suggest you seek and try to understand them, instead of making accusations from a far. In the end this is a science of consciousness, that unites the seeker with the divine ground

[nventr]

Try to see what is being created here. Try to see that this is a microcosm of what has been happening world wide for the past 2,000 years and more.

Let’s try to create Understanding so Harmony can be achieved.

[Hiram]

I am all for creating understanding and harmony. In fact on my first post in this thread I posted a link to the story of The Blind Men and the Elephant. All I have requested is that the discussion remains objective and not accusatory. Brifae has promised to restrain her bias where possible and that is all I wanted from the start.

Brifae, regarding my inability or unwillingness to discuss these matters you are most mistaken. I have not been raised into the lodge of my fathers because I am only 20 and in my area a man must be 21 prior to application. This being the case I have sworn no oaths of secrecy and I am not unwilling to disclose the information I have gained on these topics thus far. My father is a mason, as was his grandfather, and his before him...etc, they were all men of distinction within their communities, ranging from fire and police services to serving our country in times of war. These men of influence in my life found great value in the philosophy, teachings, and brotherhood gained in the lodge. When you insult the institution you insult my heritage and my inheritance, so please tread lightly.

In regards to Albert Pike on Lucifer, this is a common quote used amongst conspiracy theorists to "exploit" the satanic nature of masonry. The truth is rooted in a mistranslation. Lucifer has been incorrectly transformed into an alternative name for Satan when in truth the verse in Isaiah is referencing an ancient Babylonian king that had fallen from grace, because he raised himself to the status of God. The link below goes into a little more depth and saves me from an hours writing :P I encourage you to read through the entirety but if you scroll to the part on Lucifer it will suffice.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/lucifer.htm

[brifae]

I am familiar with the kings of tyre,
are you saying pike didnt write morals and dogma in english originally, cause the lucifer quote is from him.
I am also aware of the biblical mistranslation though lucifer is not satan i'm aware.

[Hiram]

no sorry if that is how I made it sound. the bible is what was mistranslated. Lucifer is a latin name for the morning star. it is not the name of satan. the original hebrew scripture Isaiah makes no mention of Lucifer being the name for a fallen angel. the original story is of an ancient babylonian king that tried to put himself above God and fell from heavens grace. the story was mistranslated by translators and that is how the myth of lucifer began. please read through the link i provided and it will be made clear.

[brifae]

the G can be said to represent, Geometry, Goat, God... depending on who you ask I suppose.

One said it is G generation generative life pyramidic force of fire, planets matter stars...pyre fire spirit triangle

[no name]

I thought this forum would be good but I didnt expect to find such a thread so quickly. Interesting in that people are discussing potentially negative aspects of Freemasonry in allusion and connection to goats . Especially from a Wiccan perspective . There is that old devil again folks.
So; being a forum that is interested in symbolism, why does that particular symbol hold so much sway? Of course we have the idea of the scapegoat, but goats and humans have been associating for a loooong time.

A goat is more individual and intelligent than a sheep. A sheep is a mass herd animal. Put some goats (or one) in a mob of sheep and the IQ goes straight up. I know, we did it on the farm. Open the gate to fresh pasture and the sheep are just as likely to run the opposite way, all following each other and consecutivly crash into the fence. But they are smart enough to know a goat is smart and they will watch and follow one. The goat will go straight out the gate and the sheep follow. But the goat will also figure out how to get through the fence or undo the gate to get to veggie patch, and the sheep will follow there as well.

Organisations, systems and religons dont like goats. They are as much trouble as a Chinese fire horse woman . They want sheep. I remember being taught as a kid; gentle Jesus meek and mild, leading all the sheep along. Even then I thought; but why does the shepard want to lead the sheep? He wants wool to keep his outside warm, and meat to keep his inside warm. We are encouraged to be like sheep, not goats. Goats are bad, goats are evil, troublemaking individuals.

I remember coming home once. Thea (pet male goat) is on the car roof! "What the hell are you doing up there? Get off." No. I will leave it to your imagination what the vision of me and a goat wrestling on the car roof looked like. All it did was scratch the paint on the car roof, and dent it. "Oh well, stay up there then!"

Goats and masonry .... its an old joke. Even heard someone wisper out aloud prior to a first degree initiation "Did you bring the goat." Another time, heard a bleat (human imitation) from inside the temple. Everyone outside laughed. Good joke.

Of course anyone can use any system or group for bad purposes. I can only go on my experience, and my temple and my lodge only taught love, light, life and liberty. But then there is P2 ... and all sorts of wackos. One cant really judge or tell, until you get inside. And that is part of the mystery, there has to be some doubt or fear to get over, otherwise what becomes of the hero's journey?

And why would Freemasons want to take over the world? Its already happened, well, the western world. Read up on the age of enlightment, the French revolution, the Humanist movement and the liberating of the Americas from colonial powers. You, right now are probably living amongst the benefits of a Freemasonic revolution in a relativly free society, democratic, where the power of church, royalty and ingorance has been somewhat dispelled. There's your conspiracy.

But, yes, The Knights templar were charged with kissing a goats bum ... not my cup of tea but no big deal compared to an MMMM rite, or the Chod Rite of Karma Kargu (and they are some of the kindest spiritual helping people I have met).

Okay, I'll own it - born in the year of the Goat

[brifae]

Here is the thread where I provide more info on my opinion
http://www.symbolicliving.com/forum/...light=doctrine

“FREEMASONRY is a fraternity within a fraternity — an outer organization concealing an inner brotherhood of the elect. Before it is possible to intelligently discuss the origin of the Craft, it is necessary, therefore, to establish the existence of these two separate yet interdependent orders, the one visible and the other invisible. The visible society is a splendid camaraderie of 'free and accepted' men enjoined to devote themselves to ethical, educational, fraternal, patriotic, and humanitarian concerns. The invisible society is a secret and most august fraternity whose members are dedicated to the service of a mysterious arcanum arcanorum. Those Brethren who have essayed to write the history of their Craft have not included in their disquisitions the story of that truly secret inner society which is to the body Freemasonic what the heart is to the body human.”
- Manly P. Hall 33°, Lectures on Ancient Philosophy and Introduction to the Study and Application of Rational Procedure, p. 397 [Chapter 19 - Rosicrucian and Masonic Origins]

Once a Mason reaches Royal Arch degree, he is to conceal all crimes of brother Masons, including murder and treason. Royal Arch Masons swear:

“I will aid and assist a companion Royal Arch Mason, when engaged in any difficulty, and espouse his cause, so far as to extricate him from the same, if in my power, whether he be right or wrong…. A companion Royal Arch Mason’s secrets, given me in charge as such, and I knowing him to be such, shall remain as secure and inviolable, in my breast as in his own, murder and treason not excepted.”



^reminds me of their probable involvement in the murder of william morgan

[brifae]

E levi said the inscription is taken from TEM-PHO-AB, baphomet backwards, from proto mason templars who took it from pagan persians, although gnostics realize christianities pagan beginnings, as well as catholic templars. Latin Templi omnium hominum pacis abhas (The God of) the Temple of Peace Among All Men." Levi felt this to be a reference to King Solomon's Temple, innerstanding on youtube sites the TEM PHO AB as tem for templar or temple, pho for snake ( as in oph for serpens or Ophicuis constellation)(and the gnostic ophites, greek ophis, serpent)(Omphalos, or om- phallus serpent penis wand and egg/irish ancesteral hills or serpent mounds))and ab as daddy grandfather, abba, although some cultures this is grandmother ( but more likely as ama, ma, aima), but as a hermetic figure the baphomet contains both male and female genders....from the godess as virgin self progeniting one. hermes hermaphrodite (hermes-venus as aphrodite) (mercury, magick)/thrice great trismegisterus magician (triangle, triple goddess). and the symbol of astrological mercury as the horned venus....who carries the cadeus or snaked wand (rod of asclepius)
...See thread on the cross and gnostic snake T (tav, earth, world-tree, saturn). I think my description also explains celtaurs question on the mercury gemini (twins) snake thread......



Also, from the Egyptian mystery portions: Tem: to name as in to proclaim: Tem is a title of Apep. Oph (again, the "ph" is an "F" sound as in "foe"): winged serpent or dragon. Ab hearing, wisdom, and understanding; intelligence and Will. Again, Baphomet (Bafomet) spelled backwards. In short: Serpent of Wisdom, Serpent Knowledge. And as in the BA, body, in merkaba. (body of knowledge/phallus or penis,form) but also heart-soul as AB, again the hebrew alpha-bet, or AB aleph-bet, see my thread on hebrew letters aleph=god(air,spirit)/goddess(form/house/temple)

Ciphered with ATBASH code substituition hebrew ( a later language) letters for baphomet you get sophia, Shin Vav Pe Yud Alef SOPHIA
the wisdom of saturnic binah of higher spirit and eartlhy learnings as the upside down pentagram, usually a symbol of earth/body, coins in tarot, used by mormons and freemasonry eastern star. The tree of life is actually the tree of good and evil, or the knowledge of that, in the genesis story, much like the dual head god janus or coat of arms double headed dragon or raven-eagle, gods were neither viewed as good or bad pre judeochristian monotheism. Some say the upside down pentagram is winter, the shadow of the upright pentagram or incarnate god as the other half light solar summer oak king....
the dark father as hades, wiccan holly king or irish dis-pater. Baphe is the watery baptism (bahu-metis/mendes) Thus we get the devil tarot baphomet card ruled by saturn. Which is why baphomet is called wisdom/binah saturn name in qaballah is wisdom.

Bahu-metis (mendes) or bendes (female hebrew letters bet and mem), bendes was an early proto dianic goddess, as bendis, the thracian artemis, cybele, minoan snake goddess, and later hecate. To bend is to bend the laws of reality with magick, such as the wickerman, wet reeds formed into a man, woman or swastika, and the word wicca or to bend Interestingly enough the virgin virgo is mercury in saturn or earth. (in related mary/virgo/isis thread) and the tarot card the hermit.

The flame is phi, pyre, kundalini, pyramids, the elemental fire triangle(/shiva linglam/wand/athame/life force) or wiccan cone of power (with downturned female water triangle womb/tomb/yoni/cup)(gnostic serpent grail, seen in the 7 of cups), the salamanders/snakes the firey elementals. pentagram as energy the flaming star. And triangle associated with the trinity and saturn, binah, formation, wisdom in qabbalah.
Phi, is also pi, the golden ratio or fractals or english F as bafomet as an alternate spelling...Form

http://apodion.com/vad/article.php?id=3&aid=89
http://www.gnostics.com/grail.html

.